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Old 07-05-2012, 10:08 PM   #21
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If it so happens that that bill is put to a vote and it passes, I will be pissed, hurt, angry, confused, frustrated and scared. But that's America. Unfortunately though, I can find my way around to worshipping or expressing my faith - with others who believe me in my own home. In this instance, it's not quite the same. There is no way around for same sex couples to get the rights they should receive as a married tandem. But at the end of the day, a vote is a vote and that's the opinions of those who voted the same way Andrea did.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:08 AM   #22
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So a discussion going on in the Glass House thread is centered on a player who voted against gay marraige in Cali. Some people say she should respect her opinion because it is her religion.

Why should we respect bigotry and discrimination just because it is someone's religious belief?

If they want to practice their religion than fine that is their choice but why should they be able to vote into law their religious beliefs?
We shouldn't, they shouldn't, and it should never have been brought to a vote. Rights are just that, RIGHTS. People should never be allowed a vote on rights. EVER. THAT is one of the big things wrong with this country.

Like that someone gets those rights, hate that someone gets those rights... Everyone is free to have those opinions or beliefs in this country and say how they feel. Why? Because those are your RIGHTS. Be Gay and marry, don't be gay... those too are your RIGHTS. Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, your RIGHTS.

Common sense is gone from America now. Seriously, if your religion and beliefs frown upon Gays marrying, then don't be Gay and marry. It's is not your business to stop other people's rights in choosing to do so. As a religious person, you are only responsible for YOU living YOUR best life under God.

Someone point to the chapter and verse in the Bible for me please where it says you are also responsible for everyone else and their choices in this life. I was under the impression that was God's job.

Hapy, I think said in response to Atheists voting churches illegal that "It is their right to vote how they feel"... How about we take away that right? You know, the voting one... or maybe we should take away freedom of speech? Freedom of Religion? Or how about the 'ol "RIGHT to bear arms"? ...or maybe, just maybe, we should just put a stop to voting on rights all together.
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Old 07-06-2012, 07:34 AM   #23
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Well said TK....
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:40 AM   #24
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I'm sorry, but screw anyone that claims "religion" as a means to hide behind bigotry. That's just a plain ol' excuse to discriminate. Convenient too, because religion is one area everyone is afraid of foraying into.

Religious freedom exists in the constitution; it's apart of the 1st Amendment contained in the Establishment clause. But, puhlease. How can one subjugate a group of people to the 'prose' of a religion, yet profess we have religious freedom? I didn't know because I was a pagan, that I had to believe in Christianity's dogma? And have the law be a representation of archaic words?

How dare anyone subjugate me to that, yet it's completely fine because "God says so." I never attack people's belief systems, but the moment their belief system intrudes upon my life, I have and will continue to shred it. It's disgusting. Quite frankly, I'm a better person than many Christians. Granted, I was a demon child for the better part of 22 years - and still can be. But religion is supposed to provide a moral code.

People can vote how they want to. That's fine. But the moment you entangle religion and voting together, that's where I draw the line. I don't need Jesus, God, the Apostles, whichever deity to do my thinking. I was born blessed with an intelligence, and I fully intend on using it until it starts to be the best of me.

What the fuck is the difference between me marrying someone I love and you? The fact that it's two people of the same-sex? We're all human. Would you like to check our DNA and see how similar we truly are? So, you'd rather deny me the happiness of getting married under the pretense of religion? I thought that was in the preamble of the constitution? Inalienable rights? The "Pursuit of happiness" is one of them.

So whose law is more correct? The Constitution or the Bible? One is the supreme law of the United States. If you seek to say the Bible is, then I'd wonder what's the problem with Sharia Law?

I digress. None of this was directed at anyone, but rather I'm sick and tired of people hiding behind "Tradition" and "Religion" as means to discriminate. It's disgusting. And then they'll turn around and say they aren't bigots. C'est la Vie. I had the honor of shaking the President's hand yesterday and I thanked him for supporting my chance at getting married in this country.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:47 AM   #25
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People can vote how they want to. That's fine. But the moment you entangle religion and voting together, that's where I draw the line. I don't need Jesus, God, the Apostles, whichever deity to do my thinking. I was born blessed with an intelligence, and I fully intend on using it until it starts to be the best of me.
But many will argue where the intelligence came from. Who blessed you with such intelligence? You know what I'm saying? I agree with you but it's very difficult not to entangle religion with voting. Just as people disentangle religion and voting, people entangle the two. It all depends how much a religion and their practices grab a hold of someone in their life. Just as you and many others don't use religion to make political votes - for your own reasons - there are many who do - for their own reasons. It's really a double edged sword in this country and you have things like Prop 8 (and similar bills) that are examples of it.

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I digress. None of this was directed at anyone, but rather I'm sick and tired of people hiding behind "Tradition" and "Religion" as means to discriminate. It's disgusting. And then they'll turn around and say they aren't bigots. C'est la Vie. I had the honor of shaking the President's hand yesterday and I thanked him for supporting my chance at getting married in this country.
Also, you got to shake his hand and tell him that? That is AWESOME. Congrats and good for you. That's a great honor. Just curious, did he say anything to you?
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:48 AM   #26
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Exactly. People who defend it are people who aren't oppressed. I'm not oppressed either but I think if people were gay, for example, they wouldn't be so quick to say it's okay for people to vote for laws that would hurt gays. It's easy to say "it's just their opinion" when you aren't the one getting shit on.
Bullshit. It isn't easy for me to allow others their opinions when it holds down and denies my son the right to get married or adopt. It wasn't easy as a senior in high school who marched for rights for blacks to be ostracized, called n-lover, and have a cross burned in my family's front yard to allow people to have their opinions. It wasn't easy to listen to two airmen in the post office tell me I should stick to my own kind when I decided to marry a man from the Philippines. Of course I've never kept my mouth shut. I told those two guys that if sticking to my kind was anyone like them, I wanted nothing to do with it. And I took epsom salt and spelled bigot in my neighbor's front yard when I found out it was their son and his friends who burned the cross in our yard.

So don't sit there and tell me it's easy for me to allow anyone to have an opinion that hurts someone else or denies them their rights. I've been heartbroken, dismayed, hurt, and angry over the fact that my son might never get the chance to marry or adopt. But it's also others' right to their opinions and beliefs that tells me I still have to fight for mine.

Don't you dare think it's ever been easy for me or my family to allow others their rights. But I have to hope and pray that God has a plan and have faith in that belief that this is all a test and at some point, God wins. Not us.
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:49 AM   #27
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I love that last bit Grandma. So true, in my eye.s
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:06 AM   #28
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But many will argue where the intelligence came from. Who blessed you with such intelligence? You know what I'm saying? I agree with you but it's very difficult not to entangle religion with voting. Just as people disentangle religion and voting, people entangle the two. It all depends how much a religion and their practices grab a hold of someone in their life. Just as you and many others don't use religion to make political votes - for your own reasons - there are many who do - for their own reasons. It's really a double edged sword in this country and you have things like Prop 8 (and similar bills) that are examples of it.
Depends on your belief system. And I agree it goes 'round and 'round. But what ever happened to keeping your beliefs to yourself? Or to those that are akin to your own? I don't go around being like, "Well, that's fate." Or whatever. I just give people advice based upon their beliefs.

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Also, you got to shake his hand and tell him that? That is AWESOME. Congrats and good for you. That's a great honor. Just curious, did he say anything to you?
Yup yup. It was great; actually, you can see me on some news stations. It was total happenstance luck with all that happened. It was crazy. He patted me on the shoulder
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Old 07-06-2012, 10:27 AM   #29
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Depends on your belief system. And I agree it goes 'round and 'round. But what ever happened to keeping your beliefs to yourself? Or to those that are akin to your own? I don't go around being like, "Well, that's fate." Or whatever. I just give people advice based upon their beliefs.



Yup yup. It was great; actually, you can see me on some news stations. It was total happenstance luck with all that happened. It was crazy. He patted me on the shoulder
See, that's the thing. It's easy to argue for Christians (or some other religion - Mormons, Jews, Muslims, etc) to keep their beliefs to themselves, but when those who don't hold true to a religion also try to inflict their beliefs, it's a two way street. Hard core Mormons, for example like this player from The Glass House, might see you as inflicting your beliefs about the issue. Or Jeffrey, the guy in the house she got into an argument with. I know exactly what you're saying but my point is, everyone has a belief and an opinion. Someone, somewhere is trying to get theirs to be the "best" and the one that is in the law. Someone will win, someone will lose. That's my point - each has to be respected.

That's awesome. I'm jealous. I'm sure you have been feeling a high ever since then. Good for you, man. Seriously.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:25 PM   #30
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Bullshit. It isn't easy for me to allow others their opinions when it holds down and denies my son the right to get married or adopt. It wasn't easy as a senior in high school who marched for rights for blacks to be ostracized, called n-lover, and have a cross burned in my family's front yard to allow people to have their opinions. It wasn't easy to listen to two airmen in the post office tell me I should stick to my own kind when I decided to marry a man from the Philippines. Of course I've never kept my mouth shut. I told those two guys that if sticking to my kind was anyone like them, I wanted nothing to do with it. And I took epsom salt and spelled bigot in my neighbor's front yard when I found out it was their son and his friends who burned the cross in our yard.

So don't sit there and tell me it's easy for me to allow anyone to have an opinion that hurts someone else or denies them their rights. I've been heartbroken, dismayed, hurt, and angry over the fact that my son might never get the chance to marry or adopt. But it's also others' right to their opinions and beliefs that tells me I still have to fight for mine.

Don't you dare think it's ever been easy for me or my family to allow others their rights. But I have to hope and pray that God has a plan and have faith in that belief that this is all a test and at some point, God wins. Not us.
Exactly my point. We should NEVER be allowed to vote on rights. Rights are something we should just have, not allow others to decide whether you should have them or not.
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