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Old 10-28-2011, 06:28 AM   #111
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Actually, statistically, immigration from south of the border is WAY down. I think the last report was close to ZERO. Why? Because there is nothing for them here now. So many here already don't have a job, so what are the chances they will get one? Mexico, poverty wise, is doing pretty much how we are now. Might as well stay put.

So there you go. The way to solve the immigration problem is just to let big corporations run/ruin the country. And hey... they moved many of their plants to Mexico too, so they don't even have to immigrate to take anyone's jobs in the U.S. anymore. We brought the jobs to them, and no one said a word. I guess we should all just stay home like good people and raise our families, rather than rock any boats with the "job creators."
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Old 10-29-2011, 09:00 AM   #112
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WASHINGTON -- America's 99 percent are not just imagining it. The gap between the incomes of the rich and poor in this new Gilded Age is strikingly broad and deep, according to an October report from Congress' data crunchers.

The study by the Congressional Budget Office, released this week, found that income has become dramatically concentrated, shifting heavily toward the top earners between 1979 and 2007.

And although incomes at all levels have risen some, they've skyrocketed for the very wealthiest of earners.

At the other end of the scale, Americans in the bottom fifth of earners saw their incomes increase by less than 20 percent across the nearly three decades. Incomes for those in the middle 60 percent climbed by less than 40 percent over the same span.

Things start to look especially good for the top fifth of earners, who saw their cash flow jump by 65 percent.

But it's among the top 1 percent where the growth was breathtaking. That contingent saw their incomes spike by 275 percent.

"It is really stunning the degree to which rewards have been concentrated at the top," said Josh Bivens, an economist at the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute. "We have now returned to Gilded Age levels of inequality."

The CBO report revealed some other stark facts. While incomes did rise up and down the ladder, the explosive growth for the top 1 percent so vastly outweighed the expansion further down that the top 1 percent's share of the nation's total income more than doubled to just over 20 percent.

The hoarding at the top was so great that even after accounting for taxes, the "income received by the 20 percent of the population with the highest income exceeded the aftertax income of the remaining 80 percent," the CBO found.

This week's report is far from the first to point out rising income equality in the United States. Numerous studies have shown that America's very highest earners have been steadily pulling away from the rest of the population for a generation.

Wages for the lower and middle classes have hardly moved for the last three decades -- a phenomenon that roughly coincides with the decline in union participation, as Think Progress noted. Paul Krugman, the Nobel-winning economist and left-leaning New York Times columnist, describes this phenomenon as the "Great Divergence."

Today, the 400 richest people in the country control more wealth than the bottom 50 percent of households, and the U.S. ranks roughly alongside countries like Uganda, Cameroon, Ecuador and Rwanda in terms of the gap between its richest and poorest citizens.

The CBO report did not entirely explain why the gap has expanded, but noted that salaries for "superstars" -- top earners in sports, entertainment and the corporate world -- have jumped out of proportion to other workers' income. The report also noted that capital gains income has spiked much more than cash coming from interest, dividends or pensions.

But even the surge in top-level compensation doesn't explain all the growing disparity. "Without that growth at the top of the distribution, income inequality still would have increased, but not by nearly as much," the CBO said.

And none of that explains what has driven those trends.

For Bivens, they're the result of 30 years of conservative-leaning policies that have undermined unions, left the minimum wage lower (adjusted for inflation) than it was in the '60s, and favored financiers and corporations over laborers.

A big culprit is the deregulation of the finance industry, said Bivens, noting that the CBO identified finance as a sector that saw some of the largest jumps in income. "That sector has just taken a larger and larger share of the economy, while producing a, shall we say, dubious return," Bivens said.

The year 2007 has a lot in common with another notable year: 1929. Besides the similar spikes in glaring income inequality, both years marked the beginning of one of the worst economic downturns in United States history.

Bivens could not say with any certainty that economic crashes can be blamed on high levels of inequality, but he said that with so few people holding so much of society's resources while so many others scramble to maintain decent lifestyles, the economy has little cushion when bubbles, such as the housing market, pop.

According to the International Monetary Fund, the pronounced degree of inequality today is likely holding back the economic recovery -- thereby prolonging the misery for millions of Americans who are out of work and the record 46.2 million who are currently living in poverty.

Regardless of any linkages between income inequality and the broader economy, Bivens argues that it just isn't good.

"It just strikes me as obviously unfair," he said. "You cannot convince me that the increases in the top 1 percent is a return to some meritocracy."

The gap separating the richest 1 percent from the rest of the country has emerged as arguably the single most prominent rallying cry of the Occupy Wall Street movement, which began last month in New York City's Zuccotti Park and has since expanded to hundreds of protests around the country and sister demonstrations across six continents.

And there's another coincidence that Occupy Wall Street and the 99 percenters might point out: It was the collapse of the Gilded Age that preceded many of the successes of the labor movement and the left.
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I highly doubt anyone will go for the Labor Unions again, but there's factual information.
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Old 10-29-2011, 02:00 PM   #113
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My problem is not that the richest are getting richer, or that there is an inequality in the way the incomes have risen. My problem lies in the way they have achieved said income, the unlawful practices, the fraud, the deceiving, etc. to get it. Yes, there is a class war, and it isn't the low/middle against the upper. It's the upper against the low/middle, and has been for a long, long time. The politicians are paid by them, pass laws that favor them in the name of "job creation" (which is a TOTAL joke), the media is bought by them, and the American people are led to believe on a daily basis what is right and wrong in America BY them. I'm tired of hearing the talking points that the media puts in the people's head. It's time to turn off our Chinese made TVs and come to our own conclusions. It's time to vote out the corporate puppets, tell the corporate wanna-be puppets to screw off (*coughCAINcough*), and go back to our roots... For the people, by the people. And no, a Corporation, as much as the Supreme Court may say they are, is NOT one if the people.

Oh and also... BUY AMERICAN. It's not easy to do, but it can be done. Hire local. Buy local. Support your small businesses. The best way to show the big boys that you mean business is to take away what they have of yours... MONEY. Get out of the big banks and go Credit Union, that should be first.

I have no problem with a corporation that has innovated something, made a product, and made their money working hard, hiring in the U.S., paid taxes etc. I do have a problem when all the jobs are overseas, they pay no taxes, they take advantage of the little people, they commit fraud, lie, break laws, kill the environment, treat employees like crap, pay off politicians to do their bidding, and call themselves American as they rake in billions... from all us suckers. I'm over it, and as much as I possibly can, my money is going elsewhere.
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Old 10-29-2011, 02:14 PM   #114
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American made manufactured products are typically poorly built and expensive as hell.

Americans want luxury and to supply that luxury...you've got to go to producing countries.

Also, the manufacturing jobs are beneath most Americans. They'll never take them.
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Old 10-29-2011, 03:14 PM   #115
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American made manufactured products are typically poorly built and expensive as hell.

Americans want luxury and to supply that luxury...you've got to go to producing countries.

Also, the manufacturing jobs are beneath most Americans. They'll never take them.
I disagree.

I have been buying American made products more recently and none of them have given any problems or seem shoddy. Yes, they are more money though.

I also disagree that manufacturing jobs are beneath Americans. Cleaning up after people, picking produce, landscaping, etc. yes, then I agree with you. Manufacturing however had a huge employee base in this country before it was moved to be produced more cheaply with cheaper employees.

Unless the people demand products made here, until there is a market for it, we will never be a "producing" country like we should be, and were. We have lost our innovation and production. Our product has become money, and you see how well that went.

In the meantime, we just keep reproducing, adding more and more to the population. They want to outlaw abortion, so we can have more unwanted people here. There are too many of us, and not enough jobs. They want to rid of public education, so we can have more stupid, unwanted people walking around. Without the jobs, the parents can't afford the private education. They want to privatize all health care. That way, we can have more stupid, unwanted, sick people walking around. They want to rid of the EPA. That way, we can have more stupid, unwanted, sick people in their ultra polluting cars, or playing in the oil slicked ocean waves and their children drinking toxic tap water. Alas, as long as the "job creators" are happy, then I guess we should all just STFU and go home like good people to take care of our families to the best of our ability.

So yeah, build that fence on the border... Mexico is going to want it soon before they start seeing an influx of stupid sickly white people trying to steal their jobs.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:10 AM   #116
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I disagree.

I have been buying American made products more recently and none of them have given any problems or seem shoddy. Yes, they are more money though.

I also disagree that manufacturing jobs are beneath Americans. Cleaning up after people, picking produce, landscaping, etc. yes, then I agree with you. Manufacturing however had a huge employee base in this country before it was moved to be produced more cheaply with cheaper employees.

Unless the people demand products made here, until there is a market for it, we will never be a "producing" country like we should be, and were. We have lost our innovation and production. Our product has become money, and you see how well that went.

In the meantime, we just keep reproducing, adding more and more to the population. They want to outlaw abortion, so we can have more unwanted people here. There are too many of us, and not enough jobs. They want to rid of public education, so we can have more stupid, unwanted people walking around. Without the jobs, the parents can't afford the private education. They want to privatize all health care. That way, we can have more stupid, unwanted, sick people walking around. They want to rid of the EPA. That way, we can have more stupid, unwanted, sick people in their ultra polluting cars, or playing in the oil slicked ocean waves and their children drinking toxic tap water. Alas, as long as the "job creators" are happy, then I guess we should all just STFU and go home like good people to take care of our families to the best of our ability.

So yeah, build that fence on the border... Mexico is going to want it soon before they start seeing an influx of stupid sickly white people trying to steal their jobs.
Manufacturing is beneath Americans today; most Americans feel they should have a job that makes them self-important. They will not take a manufacturing job, especially if they have a college degree, which are more common than the clap in my opinion. Jobs are scarce, yes, but to the everyday American they will not give up their cheap but great luxuries. And manufacturing had a large base back way back in the day. Globalization is not new. This occurred even in the 1800s under the British Empire. The interdependence of countries is the new phenomenon.

America produces the ideas and innovations still. Apple anyone? Microsoft? Most of the world is still run by American ideas/knowledge, it is produced elsewhere because it is cheaper. Welcome to capitalism. This will not change. Why not adapt to the changing situation? People's standard of living is much higher than before. They will not give it up, so the next logical choice is to adapt.

I do not agree with the abortion argument; I agree the rising population is a huge problem (8 billion tomorrow!), but outlawing abortion will do nothing to fix that. If people want an abortion they will find a way to have one regardless of what the law states. Did prohibition stop drinking? But yes, I agree with the rest of what you said. It's rather disgusting.

As for the fence along Mexico...fat chance in hell. With the United States rapidly becoming more and more less powerful in the world arena, it will find a way to make sure it stays the regional power. Brazil is rapidly rising. It will more than likely join with Canada and Mexico in an agreement that works like the EU. NAFTA already exists, which is different than the EU's beginning, but it's a step in that direction. Building a fence simply shows the world that America isn't an immigration country anymore. Lest us not forget our history: we once came from Europe, Asia, or Africa. Even the Native Americans did.

Fortress America should not exist. Protectionist policies will only spike the American income to the ground. Immigration and the flux of culture is what bound this country: now is not the time to cast it aside as well.
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Old 10-30-2011, 01:35 PM   #117
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Human beings aren't nearly as advanced as we think they are. Let's be honest. Theoretically we could solve many of society's ills if we all got together to do it, but it will never happen. Won't even come close to happening. Existence is what it is and that means a lot of pain and incompetence. If people can accept that then they will be a lot happier.
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Old 10-30-2011, 04:29 PM   #118
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Human beings aren't nearly as advanced as we think they are. Let's be honest. Theoretically we could solve many of society's ills if we all got together to do it, but it will never happen. Won't even come close to happening. Existence is what it is and that means a lot of pain and incompetence. If people can accept that then they will be a lot happier.
I cannot accept mediocre and unfair practices. I do accept, though, that there is a lot of pain and incompetence. However, some of that pain and incompetence can clearly be prevented and easily. Somalia should not be a failed state and those people need help. As for The Occupy Wall Street movement?

The income gap is widening. There needs to be educational reform in this country, structured differently to make the Trades viable and to cut down on the costs of higher education. I'd also say that teachers should be paid more, but alas...that would mean raising taxes.

*shrug* Just my two cents.
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Old 10-30-2011, 05:37 PM   #119
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There's famine, racism, child molestation, rape, crime, greed, and on and on and on. If we all just got together and stopped it, we would, but we aren't capable of it. That Wall Street movement are a few thousand. Most people don't care enough to change things. It is what it is.
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:09 PM   #120
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There's famine, racism, child molestation, rape, crime, greed, and on and on and on. If we all just got together and stopped it, we would, but we aren't capable of it. That Wall Street movement are a few thousand. Most people don't care enough to change things. It is what it is.
Too true.
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